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"Dis look loike a good place, eh?" says Gerry. "Oh yea, dis look good" replies Pat.
They flip a coin and Gerry wins the toss.
"Hail fockin Mary, I guess I get to go first, eh boy?" says Gerry.
He then takes two birds out of the bag, places them on his shoulders and jumps off the cliff. Pat watches as his mate drops off the edge and goes straight down for a few seconds followed by a "SPLAT".
As Pat looks over the cliff he shakes his head and says. "Fock dat, dis budgie jumping is too fockin dangerous for me!"
AT
> Two Irish men walk into a pet shop. Right away they...
Keep this racist shit off UMR please.
F
> J wrote:
>> MR wrote:
>>
>>> Now, perhaps it's in light of all these comments, but I thought the joke
>>> was based on the pronunciation of "bungee" and "budgie" in the accent of
>>> the joke's protagonists, and the Irish accent, as written in the joke,
>>> would make the blurring of the two words likely.
>>
>> I confess that didn't occur to me, but surely it still depends on the
>> fact that they're stupid enough to try it with a budgie?
> No, because the joke didn't imply they were stupid because they were
> Irish. The joke relied on the fact they had to be stupid and Irish A
> subtle but important difference.
Someone who says what I think but can't articulate because I'm a mathematician. You're hired!
P
L
> I like drugs myself (legal ones), I'm not denying that, but some people
> take it too far. Round near Bradford in Yorkshire, some of the clubbers
> have found a new way to take pills. What they do is grind them up and
> then mix it in gin or something...and then inject it into the gums.
> It's called E by gum.
That's nothing, round here people have started snorting curry powder!
The police are issuing warnings against this practice after someone overdosed and went into a corma!
;)
DN
> J wrote:
>> MR wrote:
>>
>>> Now, perhaps it's in light of all these comments, but I thought the joke
>>> was based on the pronunciation of "bungee" and "budgie" in the accent of
>>> the joke's protagonists, and the Irish accent, as written in the joke,
>>> would make the blurring of the two words likely.
>>
>> I confess that didn't occur to me, but surely it still depends on the
>> fact that they're stupid enough to try it with a budgie?
> No, because the joke didn't imply they were stupid because they were
> Irish. The joke relied on the fact they had to be stupid and Irish A
> subtle but important difference.
Someone who says what I think but can't articulate because I'm a mathematician. You're hired!
P
> AT wrote:
>
>> Two Irish men walk into a pet shop. Right away they...
>
> Keep this racist shit off umr please.
>
> F
>
Yeah. Last place for this kind of crass rubbish. Go to alt.jokes.racist This is a newsgroup for rave culture, the last place on earth for racist stupidity (and if people don't see it as racist then they need to think carefully about their own attitudes).
> AT wrote:
>> Two Irish men walk into a pet shop. Right away they...
> Keep this racist shit off umr please.
It wasn't racist, it was quite funny.
P (from and in Ireland)
> F writes:
>
>> AT wrote:
>
>>> Two Irish men walk into a pet shop. Right away they...
>
>> Keep this racist shit off umr please.
>
> It wasn't racist, it was quite funny.
It wasn't racist, but it wasn't funny either...
DN
>>> Keep this racist shit off umr please.
>>
>> It wasn't racist, it was quite funny.
>
> It wasn't racist, but it wasn't funny either...
Hmmm. When I first saw F's message, I thought he was overreacting, but after some consideration I don't think he was at all.
If it wasn't racist, then what was it? The humour relied on the stereotype that all Irish people are thick. If that's not racism, it's something very close to it. I suppose you could say it's a mild form of racism, because it plays on a stereotype that most people probably don't believe to be true.
Because these kind of jokes are well established in our culture, they seem quite mild in comparison to jokes about, say, blacks. But if someone had posted a joke based around the colour of someone's skin, people would probably be up in arms.
<shrugs> Just my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree. :)
J
> Hmmm. When I first saw F's message, I thought he was overreacting,
> but after some consideration I don't think he was at all.
I think the best way to tell if a joke/story/whatever is offensive is to get the supposedly offended people to read it and see if they are offended. I don't think that any Irish person would be offended by it. Certainly none I know.
No offence to anyone here, but I think that some people are too sensitive about these things. Fair enough, there needs to be a line, but I don't think that joke crossed it.
And finally, the joke is an accent/dialect joke... someone I know suggested re-writing it in Jive or something and it would be just as (un)funny. The people involved would simply have misunderstood bungee(?) as budgie. In this case, the Irish stupidity stereotype just fitted in better.
And really finally, the second guy is meant to have bought a parrot and jumped after his mate, whipped out a gun, started shooting at it and then splatted down beside his friend. Then one turns to the other and says "This budgie jumping is really dangerous." and the other says "Yeah, this parrot shooting is killing me too.".
P
> J writes:
>
>> Hmmm. When I first saw F's message, I thought he was overreacting,
>> but after some consideration I don't think he was at all.
>
> I think the best way to tell if a joke/story/whatever is offensive
> is to get the supposedly offended people to read it and see if they
> are offended. I don't think that any Irish person would be offended
> by it. Certainly none I know.
>
You don't live here, these things seem very different from the perspective of Dublin. Anti-Irish racist language and behaviour is still prevalent, particularly for those at the margins of society. It should not be tolerated, particularly on a newsgroup dedicated to Rave. At best its crass, stupid and sad humour, at worst its criminal behaviour.
> You don't live here, these things seem very different from the perspective
> of Dublin. Anti-Irish racist
> language and behaviour is still prevalent, particularly
> for those at the margins of society. It should not be
> tolerated, particularly on a newsgroup dedicated to
> Rave. At best its crass, stupid and sad humour,
> at worst its criminal behaviour.
Maybe that explains it then. I don't get any of the undercurrent you are associating with it. This brings up the point then that in a digital worldwide medium like news do you have to respect everyone's individual views even though you never know who might be reading and from where? I guess maybe the uk in UMR might give some sort of guideline as in if its not acceptable in the UK then its not acceptable here, but I wouldn't agree with that since we have an international audience here.
What is the solution?
P
> And finally, the joke is an accent/dialect joke... someone I know
> suggested re-writing it in Jive or something and it would be just
> as (un)funny. The people involved would simply have misunderstood
> bungee(?) as budgie. In this case, the Irish stupidity stereotype
> just fitted in better.
Oh, which one would that be? Surely not the racist Irish stupidity stereotype I hope
F
> P wrote:
>> And finally, the joke is an accent/dialect joke... someone I know
>> suggested re-writing it in Jive or something and it would be just
>> as (un)funny. The people involved would simply have misunderstood
>> bungee(?) as budgie. In this case, the Irish stupidity stereotype
>> just fitted in better.
> Oh, which one would that be? Surely not the racist Irish stupidity
> stereotype I hope
My god man, get over it. Hands up everyone who thinks all Irish people are stupid? Now hands up everyone who's aware of the stereotype that all Irish people are stupid? I think if I could see the people reading this there would be very few people in the first group and loads in the second. Using that stereotype in a joke does not count as being racist IMO. Certainly life would be very dull people had to be 100% PC in everything they do or say. If any insult or harm was meant by the joke then it would be racist but I think that, even though I don't know the person who posted it, I can safely assume that it was meant to make you laugh, not at the Irish in particular but at the "budgie jumping".
P
>
> Hmmm. When I first saw F's message, I thought he was overreacting,
> but after some consideration I don't think he was at all.
>
> If it wasn't racist, then what was it? The humour relied on the
> stereotype that all Irish people are thick. If that's not racism, it's
> something very close to it. I suppose you could say it's a mild form
> of racism, because it plays on a stereotype that most people probably
> don't believe to be true.
I didn't read it when it first appeared, but went back to have a look after all this controversy.
Now, perhaps it's in light of all these comments, but I thought the joke was based on the pronunciation of "bungee" and "budgie" in the accent of the joke's protagonists, and the Irish accent, as written in the joke, would make the blurring of the two words likely.
>
> Because these kind of jokes are well established in our culture, they
> seem quite mild in comparison to jokes about, say, blacks. But if
> someone had posted a joke based around the colour of someone's skin,
> people would probably be up in arms.
Yeah, in general the old "There were X Irishmen" jokes are racist, but here personally I read the joke differently.
MR
> Now, perhaps it's in light of all these comments, but I thought the joke
> was based on the pronunciation of "bungee" and "budgie" in the accent of
> the joke's protagonists, and the Irish accent, as written in the joke,
> would make the blurring of the two words likely.
I confess that didn't occur to me, but surely it still depends on the fact that they're stupid enough to try it with a budgie?
> Yeah, in general the old "There were X Irishmen" jokes are racist, but
> here personally I read the joke differently.
I don't think the joke was particularly offensive, and I think there are far worse forms of racism to get worked up over. But I think it *was* racism, just a fairly mild form.
I was more talking about the meaning of the word "racism", ie. it was a boring Friday afternoon and I was just musing out loud. :)
J
>
> DN
> wrote:
>
>>>> Keep this racist shit off umr please.
>>>
>>> It wasn't racist, it was quite funny.
>>
>> It wasn't racist, but it wasn't funny either...
>
> Hmmm. When I first saw F's message, I thought he was overreacting,
> but after some consideration I don't think he was at all.
>
> If it wasn't racist, then what was it? The humour relied on the
> stereotype that all Irish people are thick. If that's not racism, it's
> something very close to it. I suppose you could say it's a mild form
> of racism, because it plays on a stereotype that most people probably
> don't believe to be true.
>
> Because these kind of jokes are well established in our culture, they
> seem quite mild in comparison to jokes about, say, blacks. But if
> someone had posted a joke based around the colour of someone's skin,
> people would probably be up in arms.
>
> <shrugs> Just my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree. :)
I think such things have to be weighed against who you're with and whether sensibilities are going to be offended. In a public forum maybe the rules are tighter. If a joke could be interpreted as the teller having a go at the group made fun of, then it's getting dicey, and if it's going to offend, then it's also not a good idea. On the other hand I know quite a lot of racist and sexist jokes, that I will only tell in groups of people who
a) know me well enough to know I don't mean anything by it and b) don't contain anyone who would be offended (not the same as not containing anyone from the group who are the Butt).
E.g, I'll be very surprised if many here are offended by this racist gem:
Q) How can you tell when a plane load of English have landed in Sydney ?
A) The engines have stopped, but you can still hear the whining!
N
>> <shrugs> Just my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree. :)
>
> I think such things have to be weighed against who you're with and
> whether sensibilities are going to be offended. In a public forum maybe
> the rules are tighter. If a joke could be interpreted as the teller
> having a go at the group made fun of, then it's getting dicey, and if
> it's going to offend, then it's also not a good idea. On the other hand
> I know quite a lot of racist and sexist jokes, that I will only tell in
> groups of people who
>
> a) know me well enough to know I don't mean anything by it and
> b) don't contain anyone who would be offended (not the same as not
> containing anyone from the group who are the Butt).
[The last part of your (b) is a very important, and I'm glad you made it.]
I agree with you to a large extent, but there are a lot of racist/sexist/whateverist jokes that I hear but won't *ever* repeat. There's a difference between poking gentle fun and inciting hatred, and everyone will draw the line in a different place. Having been on the receiving end of a fair bit of prejudice myself, and having seen it affect other people around me, I tend to draw that line very conservatively.
Having said that, I don't think the "budgie" joke was really offensive, but it I think it could be termed as racist, even given MR's point. To some extent I was just playing games of semantics, though there was a serious point in there too.
> E.g, I'll be very surprised if many here are offended by this racist
> gem:
>
> Q) How can you tell when a plane load of English have landed in Sydney ?
>
>
> A) The engines have stopped, but you can still hear the whining!
No, it's not at all offensive, but is it funny? I didn't think so, but maybe that's just me. :)
Have a good weekend!
J
> N wrote:
>> I think such things have to be weighed against who you're with and
>> whether sensibilities are going to be offended. In a public forum maybe
>> the rules are tighter. <snipped>
>> a) know me well enough to know I don't mean anything by it and
>> b) don't contain anyone who would be offended (not the same as not
>> containing anyone from the group who are the Butt).
Just because the butt is absent or ignorant of the consequences of endorsing it doesn't mean it is not racist.
> There's a difference between poking gentle fun and inciting hatred,
> and everyone will draw the line in a different place. Having been on
> the receiving end of a fair bit of prejudice myself, and having seen
> it affect other people around me, I tend to draw that line very
> conservatively.
IMO there shouldn't be a line to cross. One is either racist or not racist - it's like the supposition that someone can be a little bit pregnant, or a little bit dead... poking fun is a dangerous game when one has spectators, because not everyone is capable of differentiating between ribbing and insulting - we've all met people that think they are inoffensive (like me, for example!), when in fact they come across as appallingly insensitive.
>> E.g, I'll be very surprised if many here are offended by this racist
>> gem:
>> Q) How can you tell when a plane load of English have landed in Sydney ?
>> A) The engines have stopped, but you can still hear the whining!
> No, it's not at all offensive
It is, however, racist, and could become the root of some fool's future prejudice against whingeing poms getting a job in, say, customer relations.
The problem with gentle racism is that it becomes over time incipient racism. And incipient racism leads to prejudice, which eventually leads to the justification used by some insane but charismatic person, McCarthy, Hitler and Ghengis Khan spring to mind.
Maybe someone can turn this into a PC versus Mac thread at this point?
F